Jetiquette Podcast 2: Big Passengers, In-Flight WiFi, and More
by The Sky Steward
Filed under Latest Posts, Show Info
On this episode of Jetiquette, we discuss the issue of large passengers and whether the situation could be handled better or at least with a little more compassion. Plus, have you used inflight WiFi on any of your airline flights? Have you wondered whether it could be come an airborne nuisance? Gailen and Margery discuss what limits are in place to keep the inflight surfing experience a pleasant one for everyone.
We’ll also revisit the Southwest Airlines “Crying Baby” incident and find out what some of your readers have to say. Gailen also lets Margery use his prized Kiro Travel Pillow!
We want to hear your comments, questions, travel complaints: Call 877-759-7839 (SKY-STEW), ext. 6
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Hi Friends! I have a few comments to make about this podcast, things that I thought of after the recording was finished. (Isn’t that always the way?)
EVEN YOUR BEHIND IS PROBABLY NOT COMFORTABLE IN 22C
The Wall Street Journal ran a great article on the topic of wide passengers and narrow seats:
http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2009/06/10/airline-seat-squeeze-would-you-pay-for-wider-seats/
The author points out that the standard airline seat today is narrower than the minimum width for seats computed during a Harvard Study in the 1950’s for determining train seats. We are wider people today than in the 50’s.
Just saying.
Another article on the same topic, by the same author:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124450530210396091.html
In any case, I sure wish we could all stop with the name calling. As my daughters’ teachers used to say: “You don’t need to be friends, but you do need to be friendly.” We get nowhere when we allow ourselves to be mean-spirited.
MY EXTRA SEAT PURCHASE ADVENTURE: As I mention in the podcast, not too long ago I needed to fly US Airways. Just a day or so before purchasing my tickets I heard all sorts of news about US Airways asking gate agents to be vigilant for passengers that they thought looked too big to fit in a single seat, and to make sure that passenger purchased an extra seat. Now, I am a big lady, and even though I can get the arm rest down I was really paranoid about some gate agent — also being paranoid! — pulling me aside. I had two segments to fly, and when I saw that the second leg of my trip was on a small regional jet I decided the price of an extra seat was worth peace of mind. Did I say $50? Yes, I did. I meant to say $50 for each segment. (Still, a bargain!)
I have had friends who purchase extra seats for their musical instruments, but I had no experience with this. I always purchase my tickets on line, but for an extra seat I had to phone an agent. It was painfully obvious that the purchase of extra seats is not a routine transaction. First of all it took the agent longer than usual to figure out how to sell me the ticket, and, after I got off the phone I realized the extra seats WERE IN DIFFERENT ROWS FROM MY ORIGINAL SEAT. I called back and it took several tries before the next agent was able to get it all sorted out. (At least we had a laugh.)
On the day of travel I also faced difficulties. I was given two boarding passes for each flight. One of the passes was made out to passenger “Extra Seat.” I think I did the right thing in concealing the second boarding pass from TSA. Since “Extra Seat” had no ID I can only imagine the difficulties showing it would have caused.
At the gate the agent did a slight double take (pun intended) and then explained to me that I would need to notify the flight attendant when boarding that I had purchased an extra seat. “Otherwise it will confuse them when they take a head count.” Extra Seat had its boarding pass scanned as did my original seat (which makes me wonder why the subsequent confusion among the flight attendants took place).
Not only did I need to notify the flight attendant when I boarded, but every flight attendant that passed by my row. How many head counts do they take? It seemed like four or five. My extra seat — the middle seat in my row — was the ONLY vacant seat on the plane. At one point I heard a flight attendant call out, “We have one seat here, one available,” and I had to quickly hit the FA button and explain that the seat was mine. They all looked at me funny. I mean, my arm rest was down, and there was an entire seat vacant, and I am sure it wasn’t something they are used to seeing.
Yes, it turned out I didn’t need the extra seat. I fit into one seat, arm rest in place. There were several larger folks on the same flight, some needed seatbelt extenders. My paranoia got the better of me. However, it was a great luxury on the crowded Airbus to have that extra real estate. The skinny passenger on the aisle and I used the middle tray table for our drinks. Such extravagance!
MY PROPOSAL FOR A SOLUTION
If we expect large people to purchase an extra seat it makes sense to make that policy universal on all carriers, and make the purchase easy. When purchasing tickets online the purchaser could be prompted: “If you are a large sized person and cannot fit into a single seat, and/or you cannot occupy a single seat with the arm rest down, you are required to purchase a second seat.
Do you need a second seat YES NO
Ticket agents would have the same script.
At least this puts the policy right up front where it can be promoted and expectations are clear.
I know of at least one carrier that requires large people to purchase an extra seat, but reimburses the cost if the flight takes off with empty seats. Gailen asked what would happen if that were policy — wouldn’t thin people be angry about it if they couldn’t get the same deal? When Gailen brought this up my initial reaction was heck, let anyone have the deal. However, think of the way all of us could manipulate this. If I purchased an extra seat that I wasn’t going to sit in, and you did the same, there goes two seats that the airline couldn’t sell and which they would potentially have to hand us a rebate. No, that makes no sense.
A large person needs the extra seat in order to board the plane. A normal sized person can change seats after the doors have closed if they find a seat next to an empty seat where they prefer to sit. The large person could, too, but the whole idea of requiring the seat is to insure that person gets two seats (and to insure you get all of your seat). As it stands today the rebate is a courtesy only for those required to have two seats, and I don’t have a problem with that policy sticking.
Yes, as Gailen pointed out, some people will think it unfair. But life is not always fair. We could all fill a page with a list of the unfairness in our lives. But, you know what? We can’t have it both ways. If you want large people to have enough room so they are not trespassing on your space you can’t begrudge them the occasional break on getting the second seat for free. I don’t see many empty seats on flights these days, and I don’t expect to start seeing them. Admit it — we can find more important issues to worry about than someone else catching an occasional break.
I wonder if it’s wise to “demonstrate” pouring yourself champagne….It’s illegal to serve alcohol to yourself on board an aircraft.
Obesity is not a disability….if it is, the obese don’t need to be in emergency exit rows, where they too often are.
THIS IS A SAFETY ISSUE. Need a seatbelt extender? You shouldn’t be in an exit row because that extender will dangle in the aisle (assuming you DO manage to get out) and trip others seeking to exit. Need two seats — no matter WHY? Whether your “fault” or not? BUY TWO SEATS.
Think there ought to be bigger seats available for bigger people? THERE ARE. They are in first class.
If an obese person goes to a Honda dealer, and has the money to buy a Civic, but doesn’t FIT into a Civic, but DOES fit into the Odyssey, is the Honda dealer required to sell the person an Odyssey for the price of the Civic? NO. Not even if the person has a note from a doctor saying that their obesity isn’t their fault. I think SW is going above and beyond to refund the price of the second seat if the plane isn’t full. That’s more than they should have to do.
If I go to a Subway sandwich shop and want two sandwiches, I have to buy two. It doesn’t matter if my hunger is due to a metabolic disorder. It doesn’t matter if I’m a glutton. It doesn’t matter if I haven’t eaten in three days. It doesn’t matter if I’m giving one to a homeless veteran on the sidewalk outside the sandwich shop. I want two, or need two, I eat one and one-half and it turns out I don’t need half of the second one, doesn’t matter…I PAY FOR TWO.
The FAA is tracking incidents where the obese are bigger than the exit doors they’re seated by, or where the obese block others from access to the aisle. Try emailing john.cox@faa.gov or jodi.l.baker@faa.gov.
As far as the suggestion that the obese carry a doctor’s note saying if their obesity is their “fault”….that doesn’t change a thing, does it, for the person whose safety and comfort and health are compromised. We’ve seen where a “doctor’s note” has gotten us with ESAs….nine out of ten of the Emotional Support Animals I see on airplanes are bogus. And I’m not just saying that based on my own opinion, I’m basing it on the fact that the passengers themselves shamelessly inform me that this is a pet that the passenger got out of paying a pet fee for, and gets to have out on a lap rather than under the seat in a carrier, because the neighborhood school psychologist or brother-in-law the therapist wrote a note for. It won’t be any different with the obese. Yes, you can say obesity is a medical condition often in the same way you can say that alcoholism is a medical condition….that doesn’t mean it’s outside someone’s control, or that others should have to pay the price for it.
An airline loyalty club representative was asked who gets the frequent flier miles — the person flying, or the person who paid for the ticket. The rep answered “The person who’s behind is in the seat.”
Shouldn’t a large person who buys two seats get double miles?
:-}
PS: This is humor, don’t flame me for it. But, you know people have asked!
If I say “food for thought” I hope you don’t think I’m being flippant
From http://www.tressugar.com/5911747 two weeks ago
Overt racism is not tolerated in most places, but fatism is flourishing in our society. Many overweight people say that the normal rules of decency and common courtesy don’t seem to apply to them, and they’re trying to organize a new rights movement.
In a news article yesterday, the BBC recounted the plight of an overweight train passenger who was beaten up by another commuter for taking up two seats. The aggressor yelled “you big fat pig” before she kicked the victim in the stomach. In addition to suffering verbal and physical abuse, overweight people who are speaking out say they are victims of systemic discrimination. For example, many airline companies in the US now charge larger passengers for two seats. Such a policy is considered illegal discrimination in Canada, where there is a one-person-one-fare law. The US has no such rule, nor is there a federal law forbidding employers from firing people because of their weight. (Michigan is alone in prohibiting employers from firing people for being overweight.)
Last year, a study from Yale revealed that weight discrimination is tolerated because many believe that people have control over their size. The truth is more complicated. Economics, health issues like type 2 diabetes, and genetics can affect a person’s weight.
The study also revealed that overweight women are twice as vulnerable to discrimination than overweight men. If you want to find out if you have implicit biases against overweight people take this quiz developed by Harvard researchers. You might be surprised by the results. Quiz: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/Study?tid=-1
Whether people do or don’t have control over their size doesn’t matter. If you take up two seats, you should pay for two seats. PERIOD. And yes, I DO think people should get FF miles if they buy two seats. I think they ought to get FF miles for the money they spend on fees to carry a pet in-cabin, too.
If people discriminate against folks who are fat, well, that’s unfair to people whose weight truly is, for whatever reason, beyond their control. Frankly, most fat people aren’t in that category no matter what they tell themselves or others, but hey, whatever, as long as they paid for two seats, what does it matter to me WHY they’re fat? It’s none of my business…until I’m asked to share the seat I paid for, or buy their groceries, or pay for their health care (don’t get me started on THAT; I support universal health care, it’s just that it begins with YOU.) It’s wrong to discriminate against people based on things they can’t control — where they were born, the color of their skin, who their parents were, their gender and (I insist) their sexual orientation. But discriminating against people based on their behavior….well, there’s not a thing in the world wrong with that; in fact, it’s the kind of discrimination we are SUPPOSED to be practicing. And “behavior” includes not only the stuff you did to GET fat; it includes the stuff you do (like stealing half of my seat) BECAUSE you’re fat, all the while blaming the airlines, rude people, you’re metabolism, blahblahblah.
Anyone have any input on noisy kids and crying babies, besides not enjoying them? how do you cope, what do you think are the solutions? Those of you who are crew, how do you see this issue?
I think Southwest got more cheers than boos for having the kid taken off the flight, but with the backpedaling they did in the PR department I have a feeling no babies are going to be grounded in the near future.
Oh, Toni, I forgot about pets. Yes, FF miles for them, great idea! Back in the day when we were flying now and then with a couple of cats along in the cabin (my daughter was in a youth program sponsored by Friskies and showed cats) we paid $75 each way per cat, maybe it is more now. I was always overly apologetic to the other passengers about having pets with me, although most often people were very gracious and even curious and kind. More so than they seem to be about people with kids, lol MEOW!
In response to Margery about kids and coping…
That is always a grey area. As for the kid that got kicked off I am sure there was a lot more to the story then him just screaming.
As a fellow Flight Attendant it is a hard situation with lots of frustration when a child is screaming. More times then not the parent is just as frustrated if not more then the people around them.
The simplest way and usually the most effective way to quite a child is to distract them.
Having another willing passenger play peek-a-boo or just talk with the child. I make rattles with cups and peanuts/pretzels.
Being a Mom I also understand the parents point of view.
How ever!!!!! Be Prepared!!!!! Don’t expect the Flight Attendants to have everything your child might or will need.
Have a bag that has a pocket for your wallet and phone with the following items as a guide line:
Diapers (if needed)
Baby wipes – they can clean just about anything up
non battery toys for taxi- take off – landings
some books
different style of toys to rotate so child does not get bored
sippy cup or bottle (can be brought through security if empty- as food place to fill with water for free or buy drink)
snacks
more snacks
then some more snacks
blanket ( not sure how many carriers have blankets but they are so gross I wouldn’t want them anyways)
The biggest thing a parent can do also before boarding the plane that will make it a better experience is this.
While waiting at the gate before they even board the plane find a less crowded spot near the gate and let your child run in circles, do jumping jacks, roll around, anything to let the child expel energy.
I chased my 2 year old son around the number polls at a SWA gate for almost an hour waiting on our next flight. We danced and twirled and chased each other, but by the time we got on the plane he was so tired he couldn’t even stay awake for take off.
Back to screaming kids…
On take-offs and landings bottles, sippy cups, lollie pops, or anything else they can have to swallow helps them with their ears popping.
It is never fun and I always feel for the kid and parent.
Don’t get me wrong I have seen my fair share of kids who scream just becuase that is how they get their way at home.
Usually those kids I can spot out. As the Flight Attendant I try to be assertive with the kids and not the parent and that tends to work on keeping the kids quite.
AJtheSkyGoddess — Thanks for your comments. Your advice for parents is so good, you know what I wish? I wish that there was a little pamphlet or booklet with your advice given to the parent of every flying child.
AJtheSkyGoddess–Those are excellent, practical tips for traveling with kids. It’s important to be prepared. I really believe the last thing most parents want is for their baby to be a disruption to others.
It’s been mentioned that it also helps to remember that we were all babies at one time. I’d also add that these babies will someday be paying our social security and the debt we’re racking up.
There are many things that can be irritating when we’re traveling and perhaps a bit on edge. It’s inevitable when you cram that many strangers into a confined space. Loud cell phone conversations, people with body odor, big people, etc. The trick is to remember that the discomfort/inconvenience is temporary and learn to just not let it bother us. When we let things get to us routinely, we’re only making life miserable for ourselves.
Look forward to future podcasts.